# Painting the bay



## dickhutchings

I need some help painting this bay. There many tiny waves in the photo. I was thinking of using crumpled paper or something. Any ideas?

Here the reference photo.


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## TerryCurley

What I do to get that kind of water effect is make short strokes of various color. Well let me back up...first I do an under painting of fairly dark blue, like Ultramarine Blue and then I use a flat brush with a chisel edge and make short strokes of various shades of blue and some reflection colors too. It sounds like it would take a long time but it really doesn't.


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## WoodlandSpirit

One thing I've learned the hard way is that shortcuts make a mess.
Just use a chisel brush


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## dickhutchings

I spent a few hours on this today. One thing I learned is, this is way over my head. My only hope is that I can fix things as I go along. I've got a lot more to do.

I just took a picture of it. It actually looks better in the photo.


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## Sorin

Actually, you're doing fine, son. But you're committing a common error by working the mid-ranges to death. Not enuff lights & darks, contrasts. Afraid to screw up so you don't kick it.


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## TerryCurley

I think your water came out really well. One thing about working from a photo is the values are not always apparent. This is something I saved from a very good artist that was answering the question of why the ocean far away doesn't look lighter in the photo when the law of physics says it should be.

"
First thing to understand is that photographs don't capture all the information the eye does. They're very good at capturing the shapes of things (unless you're too close, using telephoto or fish eye len's, or manipulating the image afterwards), but not so good at capturing color or values. They get the basics right, but not the fine work since the eye (so far) is much more sensitive at interpreting the information. The other thing the camera is really poor at would at first glance, seem to be its strongest point... everything is captured at an equal amount of detail with an equal amount of interest. The vision, most definitely, doesn't work that way. 

In any event... If we think about what happens on land (since our vision is used to this) you'll notice the farther from you something is, a curious thing occurs to it, atmospheric perspective. There are a number of properties to this, a few are... 
*Things which are light become darker than if the same object is close to you.
*Things which are dark become lighter than if the same object is close to you.
*The sharpness of things decreases with increasing distance
*The chroma (the strength of color) decreases with distance. 
To sum up, the lights and darks move towards a middle value, and the sharpness and color becomes less intense.

Glare of the bright sky interacting with the edge of the sea softens the edge to a large degree. Because the sky is so bright the edge of the sea appears to be getting darker by comparison. In fact, because the edge of the sea is so far from you, it is much like a distant mountain, much lighter than you might at first paint it. Also, as the sea as it moves away towards the horizon has the glare of the horizon interacting with it lightening the edge. It also tends to be less intense blue and shifts a bit in color. The color it shifts towards depends upon the time of day - whether morning, noon, or night, all will have different colors. Also the type of weather and wave height also will have an impact on the color of the sea. 

Atmospheric absorption of some of the longer wavelengths of light will normally take out the reds in the colors first, but it depends on the lighting situation. 

In any case, that is the reason behind it. It can be used to your advantage when you wish to soften and harden an edge. One of the golden guidelines in art is you never let a hard edge travel any distance for long (the same goes for soft edges)... you normally want produce a variety of edge - some areas a bit softer, then a bit harder, here and there very sharp, and here and there very soft. Figuring out where the soft areas should be or the hard areas should be on the edge of something is where the "art" of it starts to develop. This variety is interesting to the eye and makes the picture more vibrant and human... rather than a transcription by a meat camera.
"


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## dickhutchings

*Got a little more done.*

I tried to add more lights and darks. The contrast still isn't showing like it does in person.


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## TerryCurley

The wood fence is really good, and the water is perfect. I'm assuming that's it's a bit lighter toward the back shore line but the camera isn't picking it up, like you said. 

The grass could use work. Instead of a green carpet maybe try roughing it up a bit. 

This is really wonderful for as new to painting as you are.


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## Susan Mulno

The contrast is much improved. Shaping up nicely.

I agree with Terry, grass could use some texture.

Impressive for a new painter.


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## dickhutchings

Thanks guys. I haven't even thought about grass yet. I just put down some color and hopefully I'll figure out how to make it look like grass when I get to it. There are so many features in this. I think it's going to take a while.


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## Sorin

*Help1*

See if this helps...


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## dickhutchings

Thanks Sorin, I'll keep trying.


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## dickhutchings

It's done. C&Cs welcome but I'm finished with this. I need to find something easier for my next one.


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## Susan Mulno

Wow! Great job for an early painter!:vs_clap:


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## dickhutchings

Thank you Susan.


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## Sorin

Step away from the black till you're better at color perception & mixing.


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## TerryCurley

Dick I think it's wonderful. It is a painting I'd be proud to say I did it if it were mine. I think challenges is the only way to stretch our talents, and what a felling of accomplishment when it's done:clap:.


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## just

You've come a long way quickly. Now the hard work begins. Start working with the fine brushes early in the painting. Apply a lot less paint more accurately. Considering the strokes and how they blend in with the picture. Take a long time. Make straight lines straight. I don't give these tips to all beginners so don't waste them.


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## Liz

You've-done-a-fantastic-job!-Well-done-indeed

(sorry,-busted-keyboard)


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## Asancta

dickhutchings said:


> I spent a few hours on this today. One thing I learned is, this is way over my head. My only hope is that I can fix things as I go along. I've got a lot more to do.
> 
> I just took a picture of it. It actually looks better in the photo.
> View attachment 27017


 Ok, I see your problem.You tend to look on the whole picture and when you put it on your canvas it results in a mess.What you should do is-stop seeing the whole picture but small portions of it.Look at the light vs shadow areas(smaaal areas again).Don't even think that it's a painting of the sea or whatever you were trying to do there lol...but some abstract small tiny portions that you will unite one by one.Hope I make sense.:biggrin:


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## TerryCurley

Asancta said:


> Ok, I see your problem.You tend to look on the whole picture and when you put it on your canvas it results in a mess.What you should do is-stop seeing the whole picture but small portions of it.Look at the light vs shadow areas(smaaal areas again).Don't even think that it's a painting of the sea or whatever you were trying to do there lol...but some abstract small tiny portions that you will unite one by one.Hope I make sense.:biggrin:


UH Victoria this is hardly a mess. You are giving some good advice no need to be dramatic by calling it a mess because it really is a good piece.


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## Asancta

Oh @TerryCurley you don't get it...in another post he was calling for harsh critique...so am just giving it.   Told him he should expect it.:vs_blush::vs_blush:


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## dickhutchings

Asancta said:


> Oh @TerryCurley you don't get it...in another post he was calling for harsh critique...so am just giving it.   Told him he should expect it.:vs_blush::vs_blush:


I have zero problem with any of the critiques, except maybe the mess thing :vs_smirk:
These are the things I need as well as some encouragement. This is my art school.


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## dickhutchings

Sorin said:


> Step away from the black till you're better at color perception & mixing.


I'll go along with that.:biggrin: I took your comment about lights and darks tooooo far.:biggrin: Hopefully this will come in time.



just said:


> You've come a long way quickly. Now the hard work begins. Start working with the fine brushes early in the painting. Apply a lot less paint more accurately. Considering the strokes and how they blend in with the picture. Take a long time. Make straight lines straight. I don't give these tips to all beginners so don't waste them.


I'm not sure If my brushes aren't fine enough or just poor technique but I can't make fine lines or lines that taper to a point.
Accuracy is going to be a problem for me and my shaky hands. I think I can overcome it though and heed your advice. I should probably print this out and tape it over my work area. 



Asancta said:


> Ok, I see your problem.You tend to look on the whole picture and when you put it on your canvas it results in a mess.What you should do is-stop seeing the whole picture but small portions of it.Look at the light vs shadow areas(smaaal areas again).Don't even think that it's a painting of the sea or whatever you were trying to do there lol...but some abstract small tiny portions that you will unite one by one.Hope I make sense.:biggrin:


I do have a hard time trying to focus on the small stuff. I'm still a baby and I'm fingerpainting or something.:vs_blush:

Terry, Thanks for having my back:wink:


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## TerryCurley

The best way to make lines that taper to a point is to use thinned down paint with a script liner brush. I have about ten of them all different widths.


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## dickhutchings

TerryCurley said:


> The best way to make lines that taper to a point is to use thinned down paint with a script liner brush. I have about ten of them all different widths.


Thanks Terry. I just watched a video on the use of a script brush. I guess I need to go the store again.


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