# Defining Shapes



## croberts

Post Deleted


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## Michael Graves

Thanks for sharing that great lesson CRoberts!


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## croberts

*Thanks Michael*

Hello Michael

I hope you found it helpful. Just passing along a few things I've discovered after going through a lot of paper. I still consider myself a student after all this time!

This post was taken from my watercolor workshop videos (see several of my other posts for details on how to view those).

All The Best
Chris Roberts


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## hog0771981

lol.................................


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## meesh

This has become the Croberts self promotion forum. While it is so kind of C. To pass on some tips.. I joined this forum to discuss. Every time I visit, every thread has ended with a lesson from one of Croberts online classes . Is it just me noticing this? Does anyone else want to fumble and learn here? Any beginners around?


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## croberts

*Thanks Meesh*

Hello Meesh

I'm very sorry my friend for any offense. I do see your point. I'm not sure about the procedure but I will work with the forum administrator to remove my material as soon as I can.

All The Best
Chris Roberts


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## meesh

There has been no offense and your expertise is valuable. Perhaps a bit intimidating to some beginners like me. Make no changes on my account. I just wondered if anyone else was out there?


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## DLeeG

meesh said:


> This has become the Croberts self promotion forum. While it is so kind of C. To pass on some tips.. I joined this forum to discuss. Every time I visit, every thread has ended with a lesson from one of Croberts online classes . Is it just me noticing this? Does anyone else want to fumble and learn here? Any beginners around?


Oana and Michael Graves are not beginners neither am I. You can check out our art. I bet it tops yours. If we can learn something from him or at least give him a like, then who are you as a newbie to complain. This is a forum for sharing, teaching and learning. That being said, I have a big problem with the non-artists (NEELRATAN) posting hundreds of scribes. They pollute the site. 

I hope croberts puts his links back and the scribbling is reduced.


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## meesh

As a newbie I can offer how the forum is viewed by newbies. I joined two months ago and visit often. It seem all threads begin and end with Croberts in that time. I seriously was beginning to believe it was a defunct forum with just one member rattling around. I am here to learn and hope to see more 'discussion' of techniques and processes. I can google watercolor lessons. I thought the point of forums was interaction. 

I apologize for sounding critical. But I was just about to stop visiting because it didn't appear to be a populated forum. I also never requested anyone to take their ball and go home. That would be a decision made by the ball owner. Certainly the opinion of one newbie does not dictate actions on this forum. 

Maybe I had the wrong idea on what the forum was about. That is entirely possible. I will go back to lurking and hope to stumble on some other peoples posts now and then. 

I saw a new post today, someone posting a landscape they painted. It encouraged me to post a watercolor Cockateil I did. Maybe I'm in the wrong place for that sort of interaction. My bad! Apologies to the veteran artists and all others. 

Please don't let a newbies ' opinion make any waves . Sorry... I'll be quiet now.

Meesh


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## pencils

I have the same take on going to artist sites as I do to museums, I look around at the works on display, I take what I find useful to me. I`m no beginner either but that doesn`t mean theres no possibility of learning from someone who is or of being topped, as it was put in the thread, or topping others and it`s not what keeps me interested. Some people want to post how to videos then thats find by me, if theres something there I can use I`ll use it if not I move on but just as when I go to a museum, if I see something that doesn`t appeal to me I don`t ask the curator to remove it. There will always be people out there who will have better technique than anyone of us, better get used to it, just a fact of life and personally when I see a great piece it inspires me to work harder, doesn`t depress me that someone "tops" me. I`ve been at this long enough to know thats going to happen and frankly, I do what I do because I love it and to satisfy myself and nobody else. People like what I do thats fine, they don`t well, thats fine too, I will keep plugging away and hopefully continue to learn.


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## DLeeG

Claim the high pencil. It was intention to state that if top artists here had no problems with lessons being given by croberts, then for someone new to start off with derogatory comments about him is off on the wrong foot. 

Your analogy to a museum is a faulty one. If every time you walked into another room you saw three of the five works absolutely worthless as art, you would leave. I don't want to leave this site but it. Seems that NR has hundreds of his scribblings on here.


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## pencils

Faulty? I see, perhaps you should re-read what I wrote `cause it seems you`ve missed something in it....and if you could, please define worthless art for me because I`m not sure I`ve ever seen any, so not sure how you could possibly know what I would do if I did come upon some.


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## DLeeG

Thank you again for your efforts, pencil but I'm not interested in conversing with a troll.


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## pencils

A troll....so it`s come down to name calling then has it?


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## DLeeG

This message is hidden because*pencils*is on your*ignore list.


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## pencils

Does that mean I won`t be getting a definition of worthless or does it mean the definition of worthless is me?


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## meesh

I didn't get offon a bad foot unless honest opinions offend you. As I said I've visited over and over for some time and only saw one person posting. Of you're satisfied having put me in my newbie place, maybe we could get some art chat going. I don't understand the museum reference at all. If a museum never changed exhibits I wouldn't go back again and again. Of course I have respect for artists who have so much more experience than me. I can relate closer to the newer people. That's me.. New at this. Discussion works well for me but maybe more static approaches suit others. Not asking the forum to change, not disrespecting the veterans. If you can't possibly understand where I'm coming from then I'm sorry. Maybe there are others who gave up coming here because discussion is at a perpetual stand still. I can find another forum. No problems. Sorry to have wasted your time here.


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## DLeeG

When I joined there were about ten others. So yes I understand how you felt it took a long time to get a response. I left for about a year. It's some times as slow as it was back then. Other times it can be a happening site. Sorry for shooting at you. Perhaps you can see it from the other side and understand how your post sounded. Welcome to the site. I like the painting you posted. A good way to get art chat started is to post some of your art. A work in progress is a better idea.


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## Michael Graves

Wow...this post went south quick! Lol...I think everyone shud breathe in and whoooo saaaaah....breathe out. Art isnt about negativity and neither shud this site be. I can imagine how someone new can be overwhlmed by seeing people who constantly post but you have the same permissions as anyone else. In fact I think this site encourages you to post. This is how you build relationships and learn...through your work, not your words, lessons, links, etc. Anyone getting extra attention on this site has earned it...believe me. I posted on here for 3 months before anyone even aclnowleged my existence but I always used the site to my advantage. Show my work and learn from who I can learn from regardless of the level og talent. We are all artist, we can all learn from one another, and the variety here is awesome!


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## meesh

Thank you DLeeG , pencil and Michael. And again, apologies to Croberts. I did come here to learn, not to offend. I'm glad we can see it from both sides. 

I would love to see everyone's work and learn from people at all levels. Forgive me for speaking out of turn just because the site didn't meet my expectation. That was wrong. I do hope it picks up and we can see more works in progress. So many of mine have amateur flaws. I'm starting a drawing class next week to keep making progress. I can only hope to achieve what I've seen here so far. Please post more work please . Everyone. That would be awesome .


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## DLeeG

Meesh, we post our art on our profile pages. Create an album or more and load them up. If you have any problems with this after reading how. Contact me. You can check out other's art by clicking on their albums from the upper right corner of their posts or go to their profile page and click on an album.


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## pencils

meesh said:


> I don't understand the museum reference at all.


Well, theres some stuff I don`t understand either...I don`t understand how some people can get so upset over things they read on the web, it`s just the inter-net not reality...I don`t understand why Mr. Roberts pulled his how to videos because one...one...person thought he posted too much...I don`t understand how someone who is new to painting and drawing wouldn`t want to get as much help from as many sources as he/she could and be thankful someone took the time to post how to`s...I don`t understand how people keep missing the fact that I use the plural form of pencils not the singular. 
Point was...just because I may not like some of the things I see in museums doesn`t mean I ask that they be taken down...same goes for how to videos or other people`s posts, I view the ones of interest to me and skip the ones that aren`t and keep my opinions on them to myself and I certainly wouldn`t leave the museum, I would however move on to the next room or piece. Anyways, not the first time people don`t understand everything they read on line, myself included.


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## Michael Graves

If it helps...I understood what you meant pencils.  Also like DLeeg said...post some work Meesh, im interested in seeing what you refer to as ametuer or beginner. We often are our own worst critics...


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## AZACRYLIC

*Judgement calls!*

Easy does it, it all about art, or it should. There are some excellent teachers and some that can't communicate verbally!


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## meesh

Michael Graves said:


> If it helps...I understood what you meant pencils.  Also like DLeeg said...post some work Meesh, im interested in seeing what you refer to as ametuer or beginner. We often are our own worst critics...


I did post on another thread. A watercolor Cockateil. I can't figure out how to create an album or post pictures other than as an attachment. 

I know there's lots of flaws because I am a beginner. Taking a drawing class now so maybe that will help. 

I'm trying to find everyone's albums... Still figuring my way around. 

Meesh


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## DLeeG

To create an album go to user cp in the upper left hand corner. Then click pictures and albums. 


To see someone else's album go to their profile page by clicking their user name or clicking member's album on the upper right corner of their posts.


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## meesh

Thank you D. I posted a few pieces. Some of them are sideways... Sorry. I would love to hear Croberts critique. I did speak out of turn and offer apologies. Olive branch??


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## DLeeG

There is a link I would not click.


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