# Is tracing art?



## just (Mar 3, 2015)

bbbaldie said:


> Like Dick said, it's drafting. Drafting isn't art. Purchasing my Art-O-Graph allowed me to start cranking out art, which an artist who hopes to make a retirement living out of it must do. Thanks for the vote of confidence, you two.


Yes it isn't art. You might as well use a photocopier.


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

just said:


> Yes it isn't art. You might as well use a photocopier.


ROTFLMAO

Well, to each his own.


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## just (Mar 3, 2015)

bbbaldie said:


> ROTFLMAO
> 
> Well, to each his own.


Get up off the floor and practice drawing free handed. LMAO now:surprise::smile:


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

just said:


> Get up off the floor and practice drawing free handed. LMAO now:surprise::smile:


If I was still an insecure 25-year-old, you might convince me that the hours of trying, frustratingly, to make something look exactly like what I was drawing were part of the creative process. But instead, I'll risk your contempt and do what puts a smile on my face. I do a good share of freehand sketching, BTW, and sometimes draw what's just inside my cranium. 

It's art, not self-flagellation. Have a good day.


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## TerryCurley (Jan 4, 2015)

We have gone down this road too many times before @just. For me it makes me feel guilty every time we visit it because I do trace as you already know. Think what you will, give your opinion you are entitled to, but lets not argue about it and hurt each other. Let's keep this a fun place. (sorry my ex-moderator status is showing).


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

TerryCurley said:


> (sorry my ex-moderator status is showing).


Congrats on your successful escape. ;-)


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

There's no escape. Terry just proved it.

I moved these posts so the discussion could continue if so desired, as long as everyone plays nice and holds their tempers


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

I'm done. If someone out there thinks that using an aid to rough-sketch a work of art is the same as photocopying, then I reckon Martians can't relate to, or communicate with, Venusians. ;-)


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

tracing in itself can be an art.....yet if you trace you can't produce an original piece of art, and tracing can be art but never a subjective artistic expression.


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

meli said:


> tracing in itself can be an art.....yet if you trace you can't produce an original piece of art, and tracing can be art but never a subjective artistic expression.


Do you mean tracing the details of the shape? Because I'm talking about tracing in highlights, like precise distance between eyes, mouth, and nose. I end up with some almost random pencil marks, not a duplicate of what I'm drawing/painting.


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

I'll play.

How about tracing your own photos? 
Are we not allowed to stray from our tracings here there to make them our own?
How about taking a tracing of some famous artwork and changing the colors, lighting and shadows to suit one own creativity?

Your move.


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

bbbaldie said:


> I end up with some almost random pencil marks, not a duplicate of what I'm drawing/painting.


thats the creation part...how you see it is how you paint it & the more we do it the better we hone the skills of line of eye until we can paint picture perfect, but that can't be true if it's traced



dickhutchings said:


> How about tracing your own photos?
> Are we not allowed to stray from our tracings here there to make them our own?


you're allowed to do what ever you want dick, like I said tracing is an art but not an expression of creativity. :smile:


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

So once the tracing is done, there's no creativity? I think if you gave the same tracing to 5 different artists, you'd get five different paintings and you could tell which was done by the better artist. But I think you're saying that painting itself is not art.


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

Is tracing an expression of creativity?
(I'm not saying the painting isn't art I'm saying it's not creative art)


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

I think that mechanically laying out a frame of our art is not art. If I use rulers, straight edges, etc., I'm not making art. If I use my Art-o-Graph projector, I'm not making art.

HOWEVER...as soon as I start applying shading and such with a pen or a paintbrush, I'm now making art. I'll carry it a step farther: If I pick up a kid's coloring book and turn open shapes into shaded, tinted depictions, I've just created art.


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

meli said:


> Is tracing an expression of creativity?
> (I'm not saying the painting isn't art I'm saying it's not creative art)


Really? If I paint a portrait or landscape from a reference or live without tracing and I end up with a perfect rendition, that is still not creative art? I think your definition of creative art must never be a copy of anything. Is that right? Painters like Monet and others were not creative?


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

your picking and points that are irrelevant without answering the question I've been asking since the last page because you know the question moots the thread
we've got past this I said from my first post tracing is art so there's no argument or debate to be had from me on that it's all subjective.
whats more important to me is to know who thinks "Is tracing an expression of creativity?"


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

I definitely agree that the act of tracing is not art. Nobody would call tracing art. It's what you do with it after your done tracing. That's where the creativity comes in to play.


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

would you would agree that no matter what you do after you've finished tracing, to the point that it's finished it's Not an expression of how you see it through your eyes ?

do you see what I'm getting at?


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## TerryCurley (Jan 4, 2015)

I'm not joining the conversation but I do feel this thread is a bomb ready to go off.


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

TerryCurley said:


> I'm not joining the conversation but I do feel this thread is a bomb ready to go off.


I'm not going to get angry. I create art, I even manage to sell it. My status is unquestionable. However, I do find others' attitudes (nobody in this conversation, mind you) humorous. They feel that if you don't bleed, it doesn't count. Evidently they savor their own pain. O----K----...there's medication for that...:biggrin:

I just hope they are also digging up their their own minerals and grinding them up to make pigment. After all, if they're using pre-made paint, that's not art.


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

looking back through this thread the only person who's stated tracing isn't art is Just who said "Yes it isn't art. You might as well use a photocopier."
and he's entitled to his opinion, as is everyone, I've said tracing can be art and I've asked a separate question which I think is relevant....but no ones answered lol


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## Susan Mulno (Apr 13, 2015)

meli said:


> Is tracing an expression of creativity?
> (I'm not saying the painting isn't art I'm saying it's not creative art)


Define "creative art" please, not sure I get your meaning.


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## Liz (Jan 10, 2015)

I paint and draw pet portraits, I was shocked when I read in another forum some portrait painters trace their subject because it saves time. If I did that I would feel like I cheated the client. I do trace, but my own drawings not photos.

I'm not saying that tracing can't be creative, I also make digital pet portraits which are just computer manipulated photos but for me part of creating genuine original art is drawing it as well.


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

@Susan first define *Is tracing an expression of creativity?*

may be tracing is not drawing at all thats why it's called tracing and not drawing haha :biggrin:


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

I surrender.


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## Susan Mulno (Apr 13, 2015)

meli said:


> @Susan first define *Is tracing an expression of creativity?*


One can not define the above only expound on it.
_
(I'm not saying the painting isn't art I'm saying it's not creative art_)

Once again, I ask you to define "creative art".


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## Mel_Robertson (Feb 23, 2016)

something thats original, and transcends 

once again I ask you Is tracing an expression of creativity?


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## just (Mar 3, 2015)

bbbaldie said:


> However, I do find others' attitudes (nobody in this conversation, mind you) humorous. They feel that if you don't bleed, it doesn't count. Evidently they savor their own pain. O----K----...there's medication for that...:biggrin:
> 
> I just hope they are also digging up their their own minerals and grinding them up to make pigment. After all, if they're using pre-made paint, that's not art.


Is this under your definition of playing nice.lain::crying:


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

just said:


> Is this under your definition of playing nice.lain::crying:


Looks pretty inoffensive to me. No names mentioned. No fingers pointed. And if someone does indeed think that they have to suffer in order to create, then I'd say the world would pretty well agree that they have other issues.

Have a nice day. I mean that.


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## just (Mar 3, 2015)

Equating using pre-made paint to tracing shows your faulty logic that calls tracing art. Yes art can be added to tracing but the tracing itself is no more art than a photocopy. Your move. No, wait that's check mate. Game is over.


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## TerryCurley (Jan 4, 2015)

dickhutchings said:


> I surrender.


Me too. Nothing brings me down faster than being told I'm not creating art, and being made to feel guilty. I bow down to you folks with the amazing talent to free hand whatever you do, and humbly hold my head down as I get ready to mail off the paintings I sold.

I am sure there are many who are reading this thread and are not responding, but being made to feel guilty and deciding not to participate in this forum. Why should we care how others produce their work, isn't this about being self satisfied?


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

What cheeses me off is that many would-be artists have fragile egos, and are discouraged by pompous, arrogant, self-righteous claims that methods they may use discount them from being true artists, and are instead human photocopiers. 

Here's hoping any who read this develop nice strong spines, and stubbornly stick with creating. You can't please everyone. And those who seek to derail your love for creating don't deserve pleasing at all.

Your move. No, wait, that's check mate. Game is over. Oh, added the comma you missed.


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## just (Mar 3, 2015)

TerryCurley said:


> Me too. Nothing brings me down faster than being told I'm not creating art, and being made to feel guilty. I bow down to you folks with the amazing talent to free hand whatever you do, and humbly hold my head down as I get ready to mail off the paintings I sold.
> 
> I am sure there are many who are reading this thread and are not responding, but being made to feel guilty and deciding not to participate in this forum. Why should we care how others produce their work, isn't this about being self satisfied?



Do you inform your perspective buyers that you traced the subject of the painting?


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

"Do you inform your perspective buyers that you traced the subject of the painting?"

You're a piece of work. What's the matter, all out of flies to de-wing? Maybe you could go find a bunch of homeless folks, and throw a handful of slugs and watch them fight over them.

It's okay if you want to create art with no physical aids whatsoever. Heck, it's stinking brilliant of you. But keep your Spartan lifestyle to yourself. When you start raining discouragement on folks who don't deserve it, that gets my dander up.


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

Oh Just, you've done it again. Please don't leave us bbbaldie. Keep a thick skin and these things will just roll off after a while. Let's tone this down again.


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## bbbaldie (Feb 12, 2016)

dickhutchings said:


> Oh Just, you've done it again. Please don't leave us bbbaldie. Keep a thick skin and these things will just roll off after a while. Let's tone this down again.


I'm not leaving. And my skin is an inch thick. It's those who pick on others that unnerve me. :smile:


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

Wow! This is worse than discussing politics. I'm almost ashamed of myself for letting this go on.


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## TerryCurley (Jan 4, 2015)

dickhutchings said:


> Oh Just, you've done it again. Please don't leave us bbbaldie. Keep a thick skin and these things will just roll off after a while. Let's tone this down again.


Dick I think you should close this thread. Just my opinion. 

And @just yes I do inform whomever wants to know (including the buyer) that I trace an object when I do. The buyer is interested in a beautiful oil painting and isn't concerned about the process of how it gets to be that way.


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

In Just's defense, he did try to stay out of this.


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## TerryCurley (Jan 4, 2015)

dickhutchings said:


> In Just's defense, he did try to stay out of this.


Oh really? Fooled me!


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## dickhutchings (Oct 6, 2015)

I think you're right Terry. Let's talk about something else. This thread is locked. As soon as I figure out how to do that.:biggrin:


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