# Are Artists born or made?



## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

I am sorry if there is already a thread on this topic.

I have tried drawing and using watercolor, and i just can't seem to get it remotely close to right. In my head i see amazing works of art but i just cannot put them to paper.

I was not born with artistic talent, do you think if i took classes and worked at it, i could some day create beautiful works of art?

My main question is, are artists born or made?


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## DLeeG (Oct 20, 2010)

There is definitely a natural talent needed.


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## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

Can someone who doesn't have the natural talent become a great artist through learning?


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## DLeeG (Oct 20, 2010)

No. Can someone who is tone deaf become a great opera singer . Natural ability is a must.


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## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

I think that is false. They are two completely different things. Not having natural artistic talent isn't. Disability.


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## pencils (Feb 10, 2012)

A question that has been asked for eons but difficult to answer....first of all, whats beautiful art? Doesn`t it depend on the viewer? I have always believed there is no wrong way to draw, it comes down to satisfying yourself, I mean...people laughed at ban Gogh and the French Impressionists but have you priced any of their work recently? Four letter word art experts, the vast majority don`t know what they`re talking about. If you pursue this to please other people, you`ll never be satisfied, do what you do and work at it. People can learn techniques but I personally do not believe imagination can be taught, if you work at it long enough you will hopefully develops a style and a palette but sorry to say, there are no shortcuts...it takes years of hard work. Take classes and more importantly learn to take constructive criticism. Sometimes we`re so close to a piece that we miss things and thats when input from like minded people can really help. As for natural ability...can anyone define that for me?


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## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

Natural ability like, being born with talent in a specific area.

I have the imagination, it's just hard getting the images from my brain onto paper.


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## DLeeG (Oct 20, 2010)

Ross Paul Rubens said:


> I think that is false. They are two completely different things. Not having natural artistic talent isn't. Disability.


Tone deaf is not a disability. I am thinking that you aren't serious about this thread. How is anyone going to get to the level that you are describing if they can't get the images from their heads to the paper.


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## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't know what else to say,

The title is extremely self explanatory.


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## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

People can learn to do great things,
Some don't have to learn they are just born with the talent.

Can someone who learned ever be as good as the one with the natural ability?


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## DLeeG (Oct 20, 2010)

Why did you ask a question that you know the answer to?


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## Ross Paul Rubens (Feb 19, 2014)

Since it's obvious not a fact, therefor it must be my personal opinion. My question was for your opinion.


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## pencils (Feb 10, 2012)

to get to where you want to be you shouldn`t have time to post on the internet. like the Average White Band used to say....you got work to do.


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## Peter Hausamann (Mar 23, 2014)

I say both. I have family who show artistic ability, and so it is with me. However, me ability started at a primitive stage, but what improved it was my love for creating art. It was that love that forged the endless hours of practice required to learn how to do art. Without that practice, I would still be at the primitive stage. I think the key 'ability' is the _love of creating_ that makes an artist. Marc Chagall was once told he had no ability, but he didn't care, because he loved it, and forged himself into a great artist.


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## AZACRYLIC (Feb 12, 2014)

Look, learning can be a struggle for some people, we don't all see the same, and the medium can also be a problem. So draw it or paint it , save it for later or throw it away - its art not brain surgery, and we are all just learning and, if one has all the answers then write a book on it!


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## Peter Hausamann (Mar 23, 2014)

Just as an adjunct. 
I just read this from a book called _Painters on Painting_ by Eric Potter:
'The main source of interest comes from the soul of the artist, and flows into the soul of the beholder in an irresistible way. Not that every interesting work strikes all its beholders with equal force merely because each of them is supposed to possess a soul; only people gifted with feeling and imagination are capable of being moved. These two faculties are equally indispensable to the beholder and the artist, although in different proportions.' - Eugene Delacroix, 1857.
Also, some say that the soul rules over the mind, and our thoughts and actions are ruled by the actual condition of the soul. I wonder.


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## pencils (Feb 10, 2012)

So us folks who don`t really believe in any invisible, manmade supreme being don`t have souls yeah? Then, that explanation can`t apply to us.


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## Peter Hausamann (Mar 23, 2014)

Hi Pencil.
I must have hit a nerve or something . I can't see where my previous post implies that some people do not have a soul, regardless if they believe it or not. However, it does mention that some people are gifted (have more) feeling and imagination than others. Believe my, I have come across many art critics that show little feeling and no imagination.
In any case, the above post is just an added thought to the original thread - 'Are artists born or made', and it opens up many other questions. The soul aspect is just one of those questions. Here are a few more: besides genetics, there is environment, re-incarnation, culture, access to resources, support, psychological well-being, economics, etc. 
I had no intention of implying that artists and their patrons must believe in a soul to appreciate art, or anything like that. I was just being open-minded (without bias) about the subject, and passing on something I just read about from the book 'Painters on Painting'.
*I am sorry if I have offended anybody.*


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## pencils (Feb 10, 2012)

don`t worry.....it`s just the internet...my nerves don`t get touched, frayed or hit...it`s all just junk on the web. so, no...i was not offended, that sometimes happens when people knock on my door and disturb me when I`m painting to try to get me to join one of the religious clans or one of the numerous cults in Japan. but I stopped taking the web seriously a long time ago. and I`m not one who thinks the people on web sites are friends....friends in my life are people I actually know, odd I`m sure to some folks but thats fine, so I have never accepted friendship requests on line, makes no sense to me, kinda like trying to define art or these days artists, I mean who doesn`t call them self an artist nowadays?


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## LINDAKEATHLEY 2012 (Mar 22, 2014)

being a new painter, i have to say you must start with talent. yes, you can learn to paint; priming the canvas, painting your subject and sealing the canvas. but something vital will not be there. you have to put some of your own self into a painting to make come alive. i think strictly learning the rules will give an artistly sound painting, but there will be none of your soul in it. it's the same with music, poetry, other form of art. your emotional input must be there.


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## Peter Hausamann (Mar 23, 2014)

Referring to what Pencil mentioned ... _"who doesn't call them self an artist nowadays?"_ 
When I was much younger, all I did was draw and paint, and never considered myself as an artist, until I painted a sci-fi mural for the Air Force. It turned out better than I every expected. I remember actually saying to myself, 'now I am an artist'. Shortly after that I lost all my artworks in a fire. That really took the wind out of my sails. The only thing I had was the belief that I had reached my dream of being an artist. Since then I have hardly done any art. I am about to turn 60 and do not wish to waste away without returning back to art again. This is my comeback, and I am restarting all over again - as _not yet an artist._


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## Peter Hausamann (Mar 23, 2014)

To add to LINDAKEATHLEY; several years ago a friend asked me to help improve her art. I said I would only show her how to 'see'. After a few weekends of drawing nature and discussing what is to be (truly) seen and not what is to be expected (biased mind), her artworks improved drastically. As a result, she was less fearful in expressing her feelings through her art. In a funny way, I felt slightly envious of her quick improvements.


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## pencils (Feb 10, 2012)

so, you`re showing people how to see yet, you can`t see that my name here is the lower case, plural form. don`t have you contacts in?


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## Peter Hausamann (Mar 23, 2014)

*Blunt pencils!*

*pencils!* I am sorry that I am not the perfectionist you expect everybody else to be. All I am doing, in this community forum, is opening up and sharing my experience and thoughts like anybody else. But since I've joined this forum, you have criticized me and my posts. For a senior member, you show poor example of forum support. You remind me of a mad dog who daily marks his territory and biting anybody new who accidentally wonders in your way.
If you are trying to chase me away from the this forum, you have succeeded. You have made it so that I believe you would attack any future posts from me. That is something I do not need.


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## pencils (Feb 10, 2012)

Is that what I expect? Well, who would know better than a complete stranger. I hope people would recognize humor without my having to add little faces.
As I have said, it`s the internet, I just don`t take it as seriously as some people seem to, frankly I don`t lose any sleep over the stuff people post, I`m just trying to have a bit of fun. I go on line to speak normal English, hoping native speakers will get it, I spend most of my time in Japan having to keep things as simple as possible when it comes to language. I`ve always had a very dry sense of humor, I don`t go on line to bore people with my personal problems, I`ve never met anyone from any web site I am a member of, don`t consider any "friends", those are folks I know in the weal world, not the cyber one. Rest assured, I don`t spend my time plotting my next reply to posts on line, it`s just the web...I don`t think reality TV is real either.


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## WilsonBran (Sep 19, 2014)

Well, a passion for art has to be there which could be considered as born, but all other skills are acquired. So it is more likely a combination of both.
No one is born knowing how to Draw.


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## DLeeG (Oct 20, 2010)

Your last sentence unveiled your ignorance. Finish your education.


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## Lavaeolus (Sep 27, 2014)

To truly answer this question, we will need to philosophise on the nature of an "artist", and of course figure out what "art" is. And since I can't be arsed, sod that, here are my vague two cents:

There are technicalities in art, specific brush strokes, styles, so on. These can, of course, easily be learned -- well, I say easily, you don't learn French in a day and I don't think I hold a lick of it in my head after several years, but not the point. If you've studied art, you can probably say something about the "use of negative space" or "the canted angle promotes a sense of disorientation". But art requires more than simply copying these techniques, it requires innovation, a sense of expression.

These cannot be directly taught, but these are not things you are really born with. Oh, sure, toddlers vary and some are more expressionistic than others, there's some natural talent here, but damn if they have much to say. These are things you _come by_, and perhaps some people never will. But were their situations different, were the right thing to come by a blaze their hearts (this could be anything from the plight of cause X to _Final Fantasy_, though the former will probably get you more respect). Artists are _forged_, a word I use with superb dramatisation, by their surroundings, their life, and maybe with control even themselves if there's time left in the day.

To be incapable of art would entail being emotionally dead, and not even in that depressed numb way. That, or you'd have to have absolutely no way of expressing yourself, being mute, inable to move, etc. In that case, you could have the mind of Picasso, which would beg the question "What _is_ an artist?" but I said sod that so oh well.

Of course, I am using a very open definition of art. I mean, even this post would to some extent "be art" the way I view it, though I probably won't be submitting it to any galleries. Well, any time soon.


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## DaniKate (Nov 21, 2014)

definitely a born / natural talent.


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## corydulos (Apr 28, 2013)

Well, might I redress that OP question in possibly an intriguing way? 

*Can anyone be an artist?*

I propose yes.

I believe everyone has ideas...visual, musical, performance-based (say for such as dance) or other concepts they would or might wish to express. But not everyone has developed the discipline, dedicated the time and/or paid whatever cost(s) to be able to pick up a brush to paint or a guitar to play to share their inner visions. Therefore they lack that particular ability.

But is the _ability _the art?

Our own Jeff (as in "jeff"...he doesn't capitalize his "j" either 'pencils') can draw photo-realistically in terms of _likeness_, as in, if he draws Eric Clapton (and he's done a beautiful one if you missed it, check it out!) it looks like Mr. Clapton and not like that 'House' dude who vaguely somewhat resembles Mr. Clapton. (if I may embarrass him a little) jeff is a master of his craft. No one would dispute he's an artist. Okay...but what if (heaven forbid) some tragedy rendered his good drawing hand useless for drawing? He can't even draw a line crooked or straight! Suddenly a 5 year old with a flu can draw a straighter line than jeff.

Is he no longer an artist because something (hypothetically, again) happened to his hand? 

He (again, in this imagined scenario) has no ability, functionally, to draw even a stick figure.

I don't think any of us would deny that he still is an artist. Possibly, not an artist by vocation and certainly not according to his ability, but according to his inner vision, his boiling creative passion, his artistic drive that presses formidable weight against physical limitation...which in his case is an injury. But what if the physical limitation is the lack of hand/eye coordination which was never cultivated through countless hours of untold years of toil and error which would have gradually been amassed?

This would level the playing field.

Because this would mean that instead of pigments or pixels, or notes or steps, a skilled hands-on artist can serve as a medium for a visionary-only artist to express themselves...a symbiotic collaboration between two souls to jointly make a singular statement.

Skill alone can't cut it. A printer can print a faithful reproduction of an image captured by a digital camera with trusted accuracy...but artists don't mechanically _re_produce captured images, they re*al*produce works of art (of varying degrees of quality). Or at least, conceive them until by some means, they are birthed.


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## DLeeG (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm going to get to the point. You have an innate ability to get a drawing on paper better than others to a level that most honestly would call art. A lot of others, including me, here do too. This ability is a composite of traits. These include spacial and shape relationship and a control of fine digital motion. These can be studied and practiced but not everyone can reach the level of artist. I liken this to a person who can not carry a tune in a bucket. They can learn to sing but no one is going to buy their album.


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## TerryCurley (Jan 4, 2015)

*My Two cents*

I absolutely do believe people are born with artistic talent and others not so much so. I'm one of those not so much so people, but I get a joy out of trying and doing my best. There are some short cuts -- at least in painting -- and if you watch some of the online videos you will be amazed how easy some of the things that you thought you could not do are. It takes instruction and guidance and being told what tools to use and how to use them, and you don't necessarily need to go to school for that with the internet available. I started painting May 2014 for the first time in my life and though they are not masterpieces they hang on my walls and I'm proud to show them to my friends. 

I watch videos by Wilson Bickford mostly. I highly recommend him. 

Many people would say it's not creative...but if you learn how to make a picture that he is showing you then you can apply the techniques to your own creation.

It's also learning to look really hard. Look at the lines of objects and the shading. The value (ie shading) is more important than the color. 

On the other hand I have a 6 year old granddaughter that can draw practically anything. She is a true natural.


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## jchomes (Jan 15, 2015)

Ross Paul Rubens said:


> I was not born with artistic talent, do you think if i took classes and worked at it, i could some day create beautiful works of art?
> 
> *My main question is, are artists born or made?*


Hello there, 

1). Great artists are born. Regular artists are not.

2). Champions are not born either. World's fastest runner, Jamaica's Usain Bolt was NOT born a winner. He had to work very hard to rise to the top.

Same for cyber-traders: nobody sits at the computer for the first time and trades stocks with great results.

If not born with great talent, then serious work may bring some success and a comfortable lifestyle.

Also, the psychological frame is very, VERY important.
*There are many people who ruin their own life from cradle to grave. Their brain hardwiring does NOT allow them to produce something exceptional and keeps them down all their life.*


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## SherylG (Feb 27, 2015)

I have to chime in here and say that very few "artist" are born with the ability to just pick up a paint brush and make a great painting. It takes some learning and a LOT of practice, even for those born with some talent. Yes, you can learn to make good paintings but it take a lot of time, study and practice. Few people can "just do it". 

It is a discipline, like karate, that you learn a little at a time, starting at the beginning, and practice constantly, putting all you have to spare into it if you want to get better.

Principles of design, colour theory, shadow and perspective are all very important subjects to master, with or without talent. Study first, then practice drawing with these principles in mind every day. Draw trees in the finest detail possible until you can do all the various types in enough realistic detail to make you happy. This alone takes months or years to master. Ditto for everything else. Start with very basic still life objects, in the greatest detail possible, letting it take as long as possible to get every little spec and shadow in place. If it takes you a week to draw one empty vase, then that's what it takes. You will get faster with practice. Moving water, deep oceans, fur, skin tone, facial expressions, musculature and movement are all advanced things that can take some people (but not everyone) years of practice to "get", one thing at a time, but they do get better at it. 

"Becoming" an artist is always a journey. Not a destination.

All of this said...education does not make an artist. I think the mark of a successful artist is in the demand for their art. If the public likes it and pays for it, you can all yourself a successful artist. Just because you have a degree in art, doesn't make you an artist and just because you can produce a painting doesn't make you an artist. If no one wants them, and they don't make you happy, you're not yet successful. 

Start at the beginning and make it a journey. Put in the time and practice with patience and you will get there if you have even the tiniest bit of talent.

Also, not every piece of art flows from the "talented". Some of my paintings just flow off the brush and they are usually the very best ones, but not always. Some just have to be worked on and redone a few times and details added afterwards to be sell-able and some never get there and are just tossed. Some are a struggle, some are easy.

Everyone is different! Don't compare yourself to someone who has been painting for years or that rare person who was born with the ability to just pick up a pencil and draw the most realistic pic you've ever seen without learning or practice. Everyone takes longer to learn some things than others and each person takes whatever time they need to learn an area with whatever practice it takes to make them happy. You can't say it works "like this" because that's the way it is for you.


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